Very good article, although depressing. However, even more depressing is the fundamental change in US society. I live in a red county in a purple state. Since Trump came to office the first time I wad horrified to discover many of my friends, co-workers, and family were secretly racist. They are not secret about it now. Do they call themselves Nazis? No. Do they have similar beliefs? Absolutely. And with this belief is the belief that all queer people are somehow morally evil and should be silenced. We have all seen this in the US in the last decade. Now I would very much like to untie our weird connection to WCN, but since queer people are often more despised that WCN, I can't see how to keep people from platforming WCN and yet, platforming queer creators. Even though it is easy to say queer platforming is based on love, equality, etc, and WCN is based on hate, most will tar both WCN and queer journalism with the same brush. We are either both morally evil and should be banned or not, due to freedom of speech. Until the US gets far from capitalism, patriarchy, racism, vertical Christianity, and misogyny, which are all tied together, we will forever, stupidly, be tied together under Freedom of Speech. And for that, I am exhausted and sad. 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
It's such a delicate balance you have to strike with stuff like this. Too much deplatforming and it's just censorship. Too little and you allow hate to fester and grow.
It was fascinating to read about the fact that two, essentially diametrically opposed, groups came to use the same methods and mediums for completely different movements. And both think their views should be allowed and the other's should not be. Stuff like this is why I think we will never truly understand each other. It's an impossible problem to solve.
I think it's solvable, but not in an easy way: you have to take the so-called paradox of tolerance and formalize it into the peace treaty that it is: "Only tolerant people get the protections of tolerance. It's a peace treaty, not a suicide pact."
That's how Germany has fought Nazi crap for almost a century, and it's been pretty successful. It *does* piss off Nazis a lot, which means you get a lot of rage from them.
Type geek here who grew up through the zine / copy shop to web experience. Sharing some perspective from a place of geeky love.
Offset – even single color – wasn't really a consideration unless you had advertising revenue. The simple cost of burning plates (and the professional design production required) meant it couldn't be underground. Add to that the fact that the makeready for print run would be bigger than the print run needed and offset is meaningless.
The relevant pre-copy shop technology might instead be letterpress but even that's a stretch considering the costs involved in setting type – even if you could get access to a linotype to save you from hand-setting it all. Even getting access to a press was a hard blocker unless your local church or business had one you could get to.
So, as you said, until copy shops started popping up there really wasn't a cheap method of sharing messages with large(r) audiences. In the 80s a b/w single-sided page copy was usually about 10 cents and slowly dropped to about 5 cents a copy. So now there was a way to get copies and the punk approach to cut-and-paste meant anyone could do it. Eventually libraries and schools started having copy machines we could get control of and, of course, places like Kinkos which were perfect for midnight print runs when a friend happened to work there.
The pre-internet BBS days probably deserve some attention but I never played there. Instead it was the walled garden of AOL then the release of Mosaic (!) and morph into Navigator, and then maybe Geocities as the gateway platforms. The libertarian concept of free speech no matter what was the rule, largely (it seemed) because the web was all new and shiny and it felt like the few people out there would sort it all out (although the early Wired magazine editors along with every issue of Mondo 2000 screamed otherwise).
I never knew anyone that used PageMill, although I vaguely remember it existing. Unless you could get someone's serial number which was golden. It was the launch of FrontPage that really got things moving for people who didn't know HTML (and didn't care how bad FP would write code... and had access to Windows NT). At that point – mid 90s – there was a trickle then a torrent of different kinda-WYSIWYG web editors that effectively made it possible to share your message – whatever it was – with anyone who would listen. Often with both malice and pride.
Yeah, I didn't want to get into the weeds with the individual and inflation-adjusted costs of burning plates for offset printing, the tech behind linotype machines, and so forth, because it would've taken about an extra thousand words to wade through (that's the heart of the version of this talk I give in class, though!) and it wound up being *very* inside baseball. People are always so surprised at how expensive it was to make those plates, though. The plastic ones saved a bunch of money, but still.
Does the money you spend in Substack subscriptions directly fund white supremacists? No. Substack has been very clear that none of their celebrity Substacks, where they pay the person running it under the table for them to be there, have anything to do with the white supremacist crowd.
*That said*, those same people not only allow white supremacists on the platform but, worse, allow them to monetize, and these people being able to organize financially is a very dangerous thing. Substack won't change that policy until it costs more than the cut they get from monetized white supremacist Substacks, though, so voting with your wallet is one of few ways we have to pressure Substack to change its policies and kick those bastards off.
The root problem isn't platforming Nazis, though that's obviously still a very bad thing to do. The problem is all the people who support Nazis, or at least don't mind having Nazis in their midst. That's a way bigger discussion than this one article, but I think it's at the heart of all the world's most intractable problems right now.
I was literally just talking to my friends last night, funnily enough about the growing concern of antisemitism in this country. Being overtly hateful towards particular demographics of people these days isn’t as frowned upon as it used to be and instead it’s even rewarded in some cases. Like that woman who called a 5 year old black kid the you-know-what word (twice) and raised short of a million dollars. Seriously wtf? Worst part is, if you try to call someone out on saying something hateful/racist/antisemitic, someone’s just gonna say something like “It’s a joke relax” or “that’s just their opinion”. Like no, they’re being bigoted and you’re enabling that behavior.
This is absolutely why I cancelled all of my paid Substack subscriptions: I found out about the Nazis. Literally the same day I found out I cancelled everything and told them why. Unsure it made any difference.
Demi trans witches like me can’t be supporting such horror. I prefer to think of what is happening as the last desperate flailing of the old world patriarchy while the new world is struggling to be born yet the right wing remains fundamentally incapable of accepting responsibility for the horrifying outcomes of their choices, deeds, or words.
Thankyou for this excellent article it has clarified my thoughts on the matter.
For better or worse, with a private company like Substack, we really only have two tools to pressure them: PR and canceling subscriptions. Until it costs them more to keep the Nazis than it does to eject them, it seems like the people running this place are going to keep them. What you did is a small difference, but every bit matters.
I’ve hated the comments I’ve been hearing from people for a while now. Your articles have gotten me through a lot and I hope you are eventually able to find an alternative platform. (Maybe look into nearlyfreespeech.net? I remember liking their policies when I was trying to look for something similar)
Hey Doc, I think I can help you out as to not needing to post on substack anymore
I know the owners of a platform for websites/blogs, which are trans friendly and are working towards a more humane web. A (for the country) large trans-organisation already has a page with them.
I could probably get you a website with blog there for free, without needing subscription.
(They don't have their own system for sending emails though, so can't help with the costs for that. Otherwise it's really good).
Done! Also, you can delete your own comments using the little three-dot hamburger menu at the upper right of each comment, just so you know for the future. =)
Very good article, although depressing. However, even more depressing is the fundamental change in US society. I live in a red county in a purple state. Since Trump came to office the first time I wad horrified to discover many of my friends, co-workers, and family were secretly racist. They are not secret about it now. Do they call themselves Nazis? No. Do they have similar beliefs? Absolutely. And with this belief is the belief that all queer people are somehow morally evil and should be silenced. We have all seen this in the US in the last decade. Now I would very much like to untie our weird connection to WCN, but since queer people are often more despised that WCN, I can't see how to keep people from platforming WCN and yet, platforming queer creators. Even though it is easy to say queer platforming is based on love, equality, etc, and WCN is based on hate, most will tar both WCN and queer journalism with the same brush. We are either both morally evil and should be banned or not, due to freedom of speech. Until the US gets far from capitalism, patriarchy, racism, vertical Christianity, and misogyny, which are all tied together, we will forever, stupidly, be tied together under Freedom of Speech. And for that, I am exhausted and sad. 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
Yeppppppp
"Enter lasers"
As an optics Ph.D., I'm contractually obligated to point out that everything is better with lasers.
It's pretty hard to argue otherwise.
Great read!
It's such a delicate balance you have to strike with stuff like this. Too much deplatforming and it's just censorship. Too little and you allow hate to fester and grow.
It was fascinating to read about the fact that two, essentially diametrically opposed, groups came to use the same methods and mediums for completely different movements. And both think their views should be allowed and the other's should not be. Stuff like this is why I think we will never truly understand each other. It's an impossible problem to solve.
I think it's solvable, but not in an easy way: you have to take the so-called paradox of tolerance and formalize it into the peace treaty that it is: "Only tolerant people get the protections of tolerance. It's a peace treaty, not a suicide pact."
That's how Germany has fought Nazi crap for almost a century, and it's been pretty successful. It *does* piss off Nazis a lot, which means you get a lot of rage from them.
Type geek here who grew up through the zine / copy shop to web experience. Sharing some perspective from a place of geeky love.
Offset – even single color – wasn't really a consideration unless you had advertising revenue. The simple cost of burning plates (and the professional design production required) meant it couldn't be underground. Add to that the fact that the makeready for print run would be bigger than the print run needed and offset is meaningless.
The relevant pre-copy shop technology might instead be letterpress but even that's a stretch considering the costs involved in setting type – even if you could get access to a linotype to save you from hand-setting it all. Even getting access to a press was a hard blocker unless your local church or business had one you could get to.
So, as you said, until copy shops started popping up there really wasn't a cheap method of sharing messages with large(r) audiences. In the 80s a b/w single-sided page copy was usually about 10 cents and slowly dropped to about 5 cents a copy. So now there was a way to get copies and the punk approach to cut-and-paste meant anyone could do it. Eventually libraries and schools started having copy machines we could get control of and, of course, places like Kinkos which were perfect for midnight print runs when a friend happened to work there.
The pre-internet BBS days probably deserve some attention but I never played there. Instead it was the walled garden of AOL then the release of Mosaic (!) and morph into Navigator, and then maybe Geocities as the gateway platforms. The libertarian concept of free speech no matter what was the rule, largely (it seemed) because the web was all new and shiny and it felt like the few people out there would sort it all out (although the early Wired magazine editors along with every issue of Mondo 2000 screamed otherwise).
I never knew anyone that used PageMill, although I vaguely remember it existing. Unless you could get someone's serial number which was golden. It was the launch of FrontPage that really got things moving for people who didn't know HTML (and didn't care how bad FP would write code... and had access to Windows NT). At that point – mid 90s – there was a trickle then a torrent of different kinda-WYSIWYG web editors that effectively made it possible to share your message – whatever it was – with anyone who would listen. Often with both malice and pride.
Mondo was right.
Thank you so much for the extra context!
Yeah, I didn't want to get into the weeds with the individual and inflation-adjusted costs of burning plates for offset printing, the tech behind linotype machines, and so forth, because it would've taken about an extra thousand words to wade through (that's the heart of the version of this talk I give in class, though!) and it wound up being *very* inside baseball. People are always so surprised at how expensive it was to make those plates, though. The plastic ones saved a bunch of money, but still.
Anyway, type geeks unite!!!
So to be clear: the subscriptions I'm paying for fund Substack platforming Nazis?
Yes and no; it's complicated.
Does the money you spend in Substack subscriptions directly fund white supremacists? No. Substack has been very clear that none of their celebrity Substacks, where they pay the person running it under the table for them to be there, have anything to do with the white supremacist crowd.
*That said*, those same people not only allow white supremacists on the platform but, worse, allow them to monetize, and these people being able to organize financially is a very dangerous thing. Substack won't change that policy until it costs more than the cut they get from monetized white supremacist Substacks, though, so voting with your wallet is one of few ways we have to pressure Substack to change its policies and kick those bastards off.
The root problem isn't platforming Nazis, though that's obviously still a very bad thing to do. The problem is all the people who support Nazis, or at least don't mind having Nazis in their midst. That's a way bigger discussion than this one article, but I think it's at the heart of all the world's most intractable problems right now.
I was literally just talking to my friends last night, funnily enough about the growing concern of antisemitism in this country. Being overtly hateful towards particular demographics of people these days isn’t as frowned upon as it used to be and instead it’s even rewarded in some cases. Like that woman who called a 5 year old black kid the you-know-what word (twice) and raised short of a million dollars. Seriously wtf? Worst part is, if you try to call someone out on saying something hateful/racist/antisemitic, someone’s just gonna say something like “It’s a joke relax” or “that’s just their opinion”. Like no, they’re being bigoted and you’re enabling that behavior.
Ughhh yeah, tha Schrodinger's douchebag nonsense drives me into a rageeeee 😡
This is absolutely why I cancelled all of my paid Substack subscriptions: I found out about the Nazis. Literally the same day I found out I cancelled everything and told them why. Unsure it made any difference.
Demi trans witches like me can’t be supporting such horror. I prefer to think of what is happening as the last desperate flailing of the old world patriarchy while the new world is struggling to be born yet the right wing remains fundamentally incapable of accepting responsibility for the horrifying outcomes of their choices, deeds, or words.
Thankyou for this excellent article it has clarified my thoughts on the matter.
For better or worse, with a private company like Substack, we really only have two tools to pressure them: PR and canceling subscriptions. Until it costs them more to keep the Nazis than it does to eject them, it seems like the people running this place are going to keep them. What you did is a small difference, but every bit matters.
in the light of your article, you ought to enjoy word
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samizdat
I’ve hated the comments I’ve been hearing from people for a while now. Your articles have gotten me through a lot and I hope you are eventually able to find an alternative platform. (Maybe look into nearlyfreespeech.net? I remember liking their policies when I was trying to look for something similar)
Unfortunately, they don't have a robust Trust & Safety function.
Hey Doc, I think I can help you out as to not needing to post on substack anymore
I know the owners of a platform for websites/blogs, which are trans friendly and are working towards a more humane web. A (for the country) large trans-organisation already has a page with them.
I could probably get you a website with blog there for free, without needing subscription.
(They don't have their own system for sending emails though, so can't help with the costs for that. Otherwise it's really good).
Dm me if you are interested
Hi! This shouldn't be here. Could you delete it? Thanks.
Done! Also, you can delete your own comments using the little three-dot hamburger menu at the upper right of each comment, just so you know for the future. =)