Awesome article! Well researched and presented. I do want to push back on one thing: Something Awful, while historically something of a cesspool, was sold to a community member from the good side of things a few years ago, and since has really cleaned house with new moderation, policy revisions, actually enforcing anti-hate rules, etc. It’s now a pretty friendly community overall - I know several other openly trans folks on there, which is unusual for a non-LGBTQ focused space IME and I don’t think it deserves to be in the same category as KF or 4chan in 2024 (even if it did for a good while previously). I DO think a lot of the residents would benefit from reading this article, though - dunk culture is still alive and well there, though not pervasive.
I'm glad to hear that, but I hope you'll understand, given the place's history, that I do and will remain skeptical until there's *substantial and extended* history of it being a better place. To cite the crustpunk bar example, once a place gets taken over by The Bad Folks, I won't feel safe going there for years and years after they're expelled, because I'm not sure how well I trust management to keep them out, long term.
Absolutely I can understand that; all I really wanted to do was start providing those reports that it’s improved I guess. I’ve been a member there for over a decade so I’ve had a close up view of the evolution, and it’s always been a complicated place with a lot of rough edges that I certainly can’t begrudge anyone for shying away from, even now.
B.R.A.V.O. Bravo! Excellent article. Enjoy your summer, as much as you can while also working. In the meantime, I'll be over here blocking and reporting, as needed.
FYI: After I left Xitter for Mastodon, my experience with online transphobia dramatically decreased. So by all means, avoid the "crustpunk" bars. And just B.R.A.V.O.
It is such a rare treat to know that the time I spend reading an article is going to educate, empower, and challenge but that is always the case here.
I see you've posted something new and I've learned to drop everything because the sooner I get to it, the sooner my world grows and I get to feel like it's a better place. And I'm generally a pretty upbeat person.
Sincerely - Thank you!🙏🏻
I love reading something and actually coming away from it feeling like I'm smarter for having done so.
Informative and entertaining article as usual. I have to say, reading the section about radicalization reminds me of what many transphobes I see on the internet think of the trans community at large. Ie that trans people are radicalized in a fight against reality and that their rose-tinted portrayal of transition to newcomers causes more harm than good when it reaches the eyes and ears of lonely people who just need something, anything, to hold onto. As someone who is new to identifying as trans, and especially as someone who has had trouble finding and maintaining a satisfying sense of community throughout my adult life, these kinds of arguments really get to me and cause me to question my decisions regarding transition more than I think is healthy. Perhaps selfishly, I'm wondering how you debunk these arguments around the transgender community radicalizing people, or if you think that it's actually a sort of necessary positive radicalization. Thank you.
When a person chooses to deradicalize (even if, as in your case, it's only some passive bigotry they picked up along the way), the very best way to do that, according to the data, is simple and unremarkable social interaction with members of the group that that person has been radicalized against. It's easy to remain hateful against The Trans Agenda, but Alex, next door, mows his lawn and plays fetch with his golden retriever, his top surgery scars clearly visible. He makes a mean rack of ribs, and knows baseball stats for the local team down to the third string.
It's hard to hate someone like Alex. He's just, well, normal.
When a radicalized person continues that sort of exposure, the lies of radicalization just can't hold up for too long against the evidence of his senses unless the person with those views works very hard to reinforce them.
So what do you do if you've got an internalized - ism, and struggle to find local community?
First, seek out joyful online community. Finding those folks who celebrate transness and joining in those celebrations helps to loosen the shackles you've clapped onto yourself. Second, work in therapy and focus on the fact that those stories you were told are lies designed specifically to hurt people like you. You wouldn't believe a Nazi about Jewish folks, so why would you believe one about trans folks? Third, make an effort to find community, even if only for a weekend event or meetup in a nearby city that you have to drive to.
The key is to seek out the daily reality of what it means to be trans. Not to be trans in a transphobic country—the country is the problem there, not being trans. The trans experience itself.
In other words, if you want to deradicalize yourself, find your Alex and get to know him. Go to the baseball game with him and bring potato salad to his next cookout.
It'll take time, but believe it or not, it really is that simple. Time, joy, and normalcy.
I greatly appreciate the thorough response here. I think that what you mention is what causes such cognitive dissonance for me. All of my trans friends are just normal people that I happen to have a lot in common with, and the process of recognizing my own place in the community has brought me a lot of joy and hope for a future I long to move towards. As a result, when I see rhetoric online focused on a negative and implicitly skeptical view of the people I thought I knew so well and the process that I can feel taking place I am forced to question my own reality. From the time I understood that I'm trans I've begun to realize how often I tend to privilege others views of reality above my own, and I think this is a prime example of me going around one more loop in this cycle. To your point, spending more time with the people that I care about in the community is one way to implicitly disprove the hateful viewpoints as the error of their ways becomes obvious as they don't bear out in my lived reality. I think through your post I've realized that another way is for me to simply grow in my ability to value my own opinion without giving way to others at the first sign of resistance. Thanks again.
For the first couple of months of my transition, I was terrified to show my real self, especially since I live in a small town in a very conservative province. But after starting HRT, I decided that setting an example was highly important to show other trans people that we can exist in "normal" life.
To my surprise, I've been welcomed and affirmed by almost everyone in this town. And not just when I'm quietly going about my business. Cracking my egg has really helped me come out of my shell, and I've become a very outgoing people person (something I never would have imagined in my old life). I often start conversations with other women in town (or in the nearby city), often sharing my joy about a recent transition-related event or purchase. Every single time, their faces light up and they share my joy.
I've found that the greatest way to fight transphobia doesn't involve transphobes at all; I shine brightly enough that people I meet can't help but shine a little brighter themselves. If interacting with an obvious trans woman brightens their day, they take that home with them. The ripples take time, but they spread. At least in my area, we're starting to outshine the darkness.
I have to note, though, that this is possible because it's safe for me to be trans in public. Transphobes might turn away and grumble when they see me, but they're never overtly hostile. Some places aren't nearly as safe.
Revisiting this a month later because recently I felt lazy and decided to leave the house wearing a T-shirt, no wig, and no makeup. I figured it would be okay because I was just going to see my best friend, not going shopping or anywhere else.
A year ago, I was extremely anxious about going out in public looking feminine. Now I'm anxious about going out in public looking masculine.
Fair enough, if that's your preferred version! Romantic languages aren't my forte, and I've learned to avoid trying to properly conjugate words from them because I always get them wrong. 🤭
What I observe is my online presence as a trans woman accurately reflects my comfort level in both private and public spaces.
The online space for electric and acoustic bass players is unsurprisingly cis male. Those I talk with see me as a female bassist. The moderator of the LGBTQ forum there is a father to a trans daughter. Zero problems. The ban stick comes down hard and fast.
I feel moderately safe on my Mastodon server for working and retired (that's me!) journalists. I boot toots of interest to trans folk, along with other selected news items.
Again, out but not out, same as RL. But in real life ... we know this part.
I've been on Something Awful since 2008. I was told that it used to be a libertarian cesspit, but by the time I joined, the politics on the board has been strongly progressive. I've also found a community on trans people on site that I regularly communicate. I think comparing them to 4chan or kiwi farm is completely wrong.
I think my regdate is 2013 and while it’s strongly progressive now I would not have said that was true overall in 2013ish - some parts were progressive, other parts still had lots of “ironic” usage of slurs of various varieties and lots of hostility towards and mocking of furries and various kink communities. I’m not sure it ever got as bad as 4ch or KF - SomethingAwful did always have SOME standards, even if they weren’t good ones, that drew the line at illegal activity - but there were parts of the forums that were in the same genre.
Ok, I really like this, and I've been pondering about how to accomplish some of those things for quite a while now. Good stuff.
I have one worry about a place like Bluesky (which I know nothing at all about!), and it's not a small one.
From time to time, I have been identified on social media as someone with some belief that, in fact, I find abhorrent. I have a very real fear that if this happened on Bluesky, I would be banned and my engagement with the platform would be over. Even if there were an appeal processs, it's more than a little demeaning to have to appeal: No, I'm really an ok person, no really. How should I prove that to you? ("proving it" often feels like "but some of my best friends are black!").
I mean yeah, maybe my concerns in this case aren't the most important. I strongly believe in the need for moderated spaces on the internet. Strongly.
I get it, and I agree that professional moderation, which bsky now has, is essential for any safe social media environment over the long term. That said... this is just kind of how social media works, and when we live in a time like now, people's guards will be high because the stakes are high.
You prove you're safe by *being* safe, over the long run, and that means doing the hard internal work to dismantle internalized supremacy culture. If you want marginalized people to feel safe and congregate, you have to make spaces with strong histories of being safe to us, and without making a big deal about it.
Awesome article! Well researched and presented. I do want to push back on one thing: Something Awful, while historically something of a cesspool, was sold to a community member from the good side of things a few years ago, and since has really cleaned house with new moderation, policy revisions, actually enforcing anti-hate rules, etc. It’s now a pretty friendly community overall - I know several other openly trans folks on there, which is unusual for a non-LGBTQ focused space IME and I don’t think it deserves to be in the same category as KF or 4chan in 2024 (even if it did for a good while previously). I DO think a lot of the residents would benefit from reading this article, though - dunk culture is still alive and well there, though not pervasive.
I'm glad to hear that, but I hope you'll understand, given the place's history, that I do and will remain skeptical until there's *substantial and extended* history of it being a better place. To cite the crustpunk bar example, once a place gets taken over by The Bad Folks, I won't feel safe going there for years and years after they're expelled, because I'm not sure how well I trust management to keep them out, long term.
Reputations and mirrors and all that.
Absolutely I can understand that; all I really wanted to do was start providing those reports that it’s improved I guess. I’ve been a member there for over a decade so I’ve had a close up view of the evolution, and it’s always been a complicated place with a lot of rough edges that I certainly can’t begrudge anyone for shying away from, even now.
B.R.A.V.O. Bravo! Excellent article. Enjoy your summer, as much as you can while also working. In the meantime, I'll be over here blocking and reporting, as needed.
FYI: After I left Xitter for Mastodon, my experience with online transphobia dramatically decreased. So by all means, avoid the "crustpunk" bars. And just B.R.A.V.O.
It is such a rare treat to know that the time I spend reading an article is going to educate, empower, and challenge but that is always the case here.
I see you've posted something new and I've learned to drop everything because the sooner I get to it, the sooner my world grows and I get to feel like it's a better place. And I'm generally a pretty upbeat person.
Sincerely - Thank you!🙏🏻
I love reading something and actually coming away from it feeling like I'm smarter for having done so.
Oh gosh, thank you!
I sincerely mean every word. Your articles are a real gift to all trans people. Warmly, Shayne
Informative and entertaining article as usual. I have to say, reading the section about radicalization reminds me of what many transphobes I see on the internet think of the trans community at large. Ie that trans people are radicalized in a fight against reality and that their rose-tinted portrayal of transition to newcomers causes more harm than good when it reaches the eyes and ears of lonely people who just need something, anything, to hold onto. As someone who is new to identifying as trans, and especially as someone who has had trouble finding and maintaining a satisfying sense of community throughout my adult life, these kinds of arguments really get to me and cause me to question my decisions regarding transition more than I think is healthy. Perhaps selfishly, I'm wondering how you debunk these arguments around the transgender community radicalizing people, or if you think that it's actually a sort of necessary positive radicalization. Thank you.
That's actually an EXCELLENT question!!
When a person chooses to deradicalize (even if, as in your case, it's only some passive bigotry they picked up along the way), the very best way to do that, according to the data, is simple and unremarkable social interaction with members of the group that that person has been radicalized against. It's easy to remain hateful against The Trans Agenda, but Alex, next door, mows his lawn and plays fetch with his golden retriever, his top surgery scars clearly visible. He makes a mean rack of ribs, and knows baseball stats for the local team down to the third string.
It's hard to hate someone like Alex. He's just, well, normal.
When a radicalized person continues that sort of exposure, the lies of radicalization just can't hold up for too long against the evidence of his senses unless the person with those views works very hard to reinforce them.
So what do you do if you've got an internalized - ism, and struggle to find local community?
First, seek out joyful online community. Finding those folks who celebrate transness and joining in those celebrations helps to loosen the shackles you've clapped onto yourself. Second, work in therapy and focus on the fact that those stories you were told are lies designed specifically to hurt people like you. You wouldn't believe a Nazi about Jewish folks, so why would you believe one about trans folks? Third, make an effort to find community, even if only for a weekend event or meetup in a nearby city that you have to drive to.
The key is to seek out the daily reality of what it means to be trans. Not to be trans in a transphobic country—the country is the problem there, not being trans. The trans experience itself.
In other words, if you want to deradicalize yourself, find your Alex and get to know him. Go to the baseball game with him and bring potato salad to his next cookout.
It'll take time, but believe it or not, it really is that simple. Time, joy, and normalcy.
I greatly appreciate the thorough response here. I think that what you mention is what causes such cognitive dissonance for me. All of my trans friends are just normal people that I happen to have a lot in common with, and the process of recognizing my own place in the community has brought me a lot of joy and hope for a future I long to move towards. As a result, when I see rhetoric online focused on a negative and implicitly skeptical view of the people I thought I knew so well and the process that I can feel taking place I am forced to question my own reality. From the time I understood that I'm trans I've begun to realize how often I tend to privilege others views of reality above my own, and I think this is a prime example of me going around one more loop in this cycle. To your point, spending more time with the people that I care about in the community is one way to implicitly disprove the hateful viewpoints as the error of their ways becomes obvious as they don't bear out in my lived reality. I think through your post I've realized that another way is for me to simply grow in my ability to value my own opinion without giving way to others at the first sign of resistance. Thanks again.
For the first couple of months of my transition, I was terrified to show my real self, especially since I live in a small town in a very conservative province. But after starting HRT, I decided that setting an example was highly important to show other trans people that we can exist in "normal" life.
To my surprise, I've been welcomed and affirmed by almost everyone in this town. And not just when I'm quietly going about my business. Cracking my egg has really helped me come out of my shell, and I've become a very outgoing people person (something I never would have imagined in my old life). I often start conversations with other women in town (or in the nearby city), often sharing my joy about a recent transition-related event or purchase. Every single time, their faces light up and they share my joy.
I've found that the greatest way to fight transphobia doesn't involve transphobes at all; I shine brightly enough that people I meet can't help but shine a little brighter themselves. If interacting with an obvious trans woman brightens their day, they take that home with them. The ripples take time, but they spread. At least in my area, we're starting to outshine the darkness.
I have to note, though, that this is possible because it's safe for me to be trans in public. Transphobes might turn away and grumble when they see me, but they're never overtly hostile. Some places aren't nearly as safe.
Revisiting this a month later because recently I felt lazy and decided to leave the house wearing a T-shirt, no wig, and no makeup. I figured it would be okay because I was just going to see my best friend, not going shopping or anywhere else.
A year ago, I was extremely anxious about going out in public looking feminine. Now I'm anxious about going out in public looking masculine.
Also I think it was a typo for 'fetch' but playing fetish with a golden retriever gives quite the mental image lol
Lol, yikes! 🤣
I think we also need a BRAVA acronym, since it's the feminine form. ;-)
Block, Report, And Vanish Anonymously? Block, Report, And Vibe Away?
Regardless...Brava!
Fair enough, if that's your preferred version! Romantic languages aren't my forte, and I've learned to avoid trying to properly conjugate words from them because I always get them wrong. 🤭
What I observe is my online presence as a trans woman accurately reflects my comfort level in both private and public spaces.
The online space for electric and acoustic bass players is unsurprisingly cis male. Those I talk with see me as a female bassist. The moderator of the LGBTQ forum there is a father to a trans daughter. Zero problems. The ban stick comes down hard and fast.
I feel moderately safe on my Mastodon server for working and retired (that's me!) journalists. I boot toots of interest to trans folk, along with other selected news items.
Again, out but not out, same as RL. But in real life ... we know this part.
I've been on Something Awful since 2008. I was told that it used to be a libertarian cesspit, but by the time I joined, the politics on the board has been strongly progressive. I've also found a community on trans people on site that I regularly communicate. I think comparing them to 4chan or kiwi farm is completely wrong.
I think my regdate is 2013 and while it’s strongly progressive now I would not have said that was true overall in 2013ish - some parts were progressive, other parts still had lots of “ironic” usage of slurs of various varieties and lots of hostility towards and mocking of furries and various kink communities. I’m not sure it ever got as bad as 4ch or KF - SomethingAwful did always have SOME standards, even if they weren’t good ones, that drew the line at illegal activity - but there were parts of the forums that were in the same genre.
Great article. Enjoy your summer!
Ok, I really like this, and I've been pondering about how to accomplish some of those things for quite a while now. Good stuff.
I have one worry about a place like Bluesky (which I know nothing at all about!), and it's not a small one.
From time to time, I have been identified on social media as someone with some belief that, in fact, I find abhorrent. I have a very real fear that if this happened on Bluesky, I would be banned and my engagement with the platform would be over. Even if there were an appeal processs, it's more than a little demeaning to have to appeal: No, I'm really an ok person, no really. How should I prove that to you? ("proving it" often feels like "but some of my best friends are black!").
I mean yeah, maybe my concerns in this case aren't the most important. I strongly believe in the need for moderated spaces on the internet. Strongly.
I get it, and I agree that professional moderation, which bsky now has, is essential for any safe social media environment over the long term. That said... this is just kind of how social media works, and when we live in a time like now, people's guards will be high because the stakes are high.
You prove you're safe by *being* safe, over the long run, and that means doing the hard internal work to dismantle internalized supremacy culture. If you want marginalized people to feel safe and congregate, you have to make spaces with strong histories of being safe to us, and without making a big deal about it.
If it's safe and desirable, we will come.
Yay! It's good to hear that BlueSky took off! And using B.R.A.V.O is brilliant.
Enjoy your time with family and have fun with the project!